Talk:4Kids Entertainment

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	To-do list for 4Kids Entertainment:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Attempt to find neutral ground regarding what needs to be in the article and what doesn't need to be in the article. Find additional criticism. Bring the article to encyclopedic standards. Reorganize corporate material
Priority 3

Archives: 01.

Contents 1 Neutal check Nomination 2 One Piece cancelled. 3 Hmmm 4 Hahaha, title vandalism 5 Criticism Section 5.1 VG Cats link 6 Magical DoReMi girls "sexy"? 7 Second major update 8 The Legend of Zelda and Banjo-Kazooie 9 "There is no controversy" 10 "Expanding" the Criticism section 11 Cat Fanicer's Socitey and the RAF? 12 Question 13 Help 14 Question 15 question 16 one piece question 17 Kappa Mikey 18 Plagiarism? 19 Category:4Kids cast members

[edit] Neutal check Nomination

I still feel that the critisim section is not 100% neutral and that more could be done (Ke5crz 05:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC))

I think it's mostly fine the way it is.--69.141.190.230 21:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Who the *bleep* cares if it's biased!?We ALL hate 4Kids, c'mon, someone prove me wrong.Centurion Ry 11:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't hate 4Kids, and I think it's shameful that anime fans make such a big deal out of what they do. They don't want to anger these people on purpose! Nintendo Maximus 05:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I wanted to ask a question.. Do you know why 4kids remove refrences to Japanese culture.

Ex: Removing Japanese text even though its in English sometimes, changing a character uses a "Curry Deck" into a Pot Roast deck. Note American children / teens know where Japan is, but accourding to the the master Al kahn he thinks American children don't know how to read.

I know 4kids is trying to localize the anime (cartoon know) but does it seem anti-Japanese removing text, changing location, changing storylines.

Do you know why?

My guesses are, either he's actually satan, a xenophobe, some guy who think's he's better than you, an idiot or, finally, and most plausibly, he thinks we're all to stupid.(the godammed bastard)Centurion Ry 09:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, 4Kids removes references to things that most American children wouldn't be familiar with, such as changing the rice balls into cookies. Its not out of xenophobia, its just a matter of creating a product that the target audience can better embrace. Same thing goes with removing kanji symbols, kids can't recognize them for being Japanese text, let alone read them. I don't know why the english letters were removed, but my guess is that if the artistic edits were done by the Japanese artists, then they would have removed all Japanese and English letters in order to send them out to the entire Western market, not just America. That way, anime titles such as One Piece and Sonic X would be better edited for non-english speaking markets, such as Mexico, Europe, and China.

If 4kids really was xenophobic, then they would never give the japanese companies money or make japanese anime popular in the first place. If you want to see an actual xenophobic version of One Piece, look up the Korean version. In Korea, anything Japanese is bad, so Zoro's katanas were edited into wooden sticks.--69.141.190.230 21:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite clear that the material is being localized for an American audience. Media all over the world does this routinely for a large number of different programs. Put it this way - when you ingest media through viewing, it plays into a whole cultural motif. If you are not part of that motif, you do not understand it - you will miss jokes, miss context, miss important nuances of the program. The average America viewer is not Japanese, and does not understand Japanese culture. They are not hostile to it, but would be confused and probably annoyed by material they view that they are not familiar with. This is not unique to 4kids, or to American media - for instance, even a country as similar to America as Canada would localize content like Sesame Street for a Canadian audience because the typical Canadian child does not have the same cultural references as an American. In fact, Sesame Street has actively promoted this localization, creating "spin-offs" for many different countries under slightly different names. Take it as much the same. Haemo 07:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

But keeping the stuff would be a cultural experience in education. I myself had no idea what rice balls were until I started watching Anime (I do believe Digimon kept them as rice balls, but I'm not sure) but now I know a lot more about Japanese culture after watching anime shows. Plus its not like kids don't know what Sushi is, and even if they didn't they would find out easily. Also with 90% of video games coming from Japan, I'm sure children are going to know a little bit about what japanese kanji and whanot look like. So don't say its not a pointless edit, because it most definitely is. The only people that don't hate 4kids are those who don't care about anime or those who haven't found out what they did to shows (I am one of those people, I remember going to see a Pokemon movie when i was a kid and thinking "It's wonderful what these 4kids people do, brining these shows from japan here for us. See even then I knew this stuff came from Japan, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize Japanese products.). Mavrickindigo 17:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

True, but educational programming usually doesn't sell well. Successful products must cater to the demands of the consumers.--69.242.35.210 02:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

this reminds me of an episode of the old TMNT show. They are searching for some villain and they are in a newsroom or airport where there are clocks with times around the world on them. There was a conversation that was like "Oh no, we're too late" "No we're not, its only x o'clock in place where bad guy is" "That's right, in different parts of the world, time is different" "and they say you can't learn anything from cartoons." Now tell me that TMNT did not and does not sell well, and tell me how cultural snippets of info are not like passively referring to time zones.70.17.0.102 18:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One Piece cancelled.

I just heard that 4kids is cancelling One Piece.[1] Nauto 01:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• Their source is just something on ToonZone talking about an e-mail, and Wikipedia is not for original research. Matty-chan 03:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Right, as much as I would like this news to be true, a forum post of a guy claiming to have gotten an email is not a reliable source.--130.156.198.72 21:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not just one person, multiple people have sent letters to 4Kids and gotten the same responce. (Justyn 21:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC))

Do you have a link?--69.141.190.230 04:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup, two.[2][3](Justyn 07:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

They both cite the same forum post as their source.--69.141.190.230 15:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

My point. I have decided to just call it hiatus for now unless 4Kids sends out a press release or removes it from their website (they did remove Pokémon as soon as they lost it). Any more attempts to say it is officially cancelled will be treated as vandalism. Many people can claim they have gotten e-mails, but that's still original research, especially when so many people want 4Kids to stop dubbing. News probably got out and as a chain of people who want to believe it's true, it's spreading. Matty-chan 02:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Why don't YOU send them an email and see what their response is? Mavrickindigo 17:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmm

I'm not very versed in this 'controversy', but perhaps there can be some editing to ensure that the reader understands that the 'controversy' is pretty much Vocal Online Minority versus Quiet Offline Majority, and essentially irrelevent? Especially given that the uncut DVDs were dismal failures, the average reader should get the impression that this 'controversy' is only one in the eyes of those kind of guys that hate anything other than the original anime. Scumbag 17:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think that by referring to the critics as primarily "anime fans" already implies...certain attributes.--130.156.198.72 21:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Such as? Also anime fans are the only ones that should be concerned about an Anime Dubbing Company. Do we really concern ourselves with the leader of the "Save the Whales" movement's opinion on the matter? Mavrickindigo 17:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

There appears to be a confusion here (I won't comment on whether or not it's delibrate and meant to be insulting) between "anime fan" and "utterly obsessed fan" and "people who like their anime mostly unedited" and "people who found some of the past anime edits to various serious somewhat perplexing".

"Anime fan" = DOES NOT have any "certain" implications other than the person likes Japanese animation. Seriously. I know tons and tons of people who call themselves "anime fans" and they run the gamut from pompous intellectuals publishing books on the Kabbalic references in Evangelion, to 13-year-old girls who had never heard of Evangelion and were more concerned with "shipping" (pairing up of various characters) than obscure references... or dub censoring. I've seen anime fans ranging from "purist who will never watch a show in anything but the original language", to "actually liked the dub version of Sailor Moon better." Honestly, I don't know why people are confusing ALL of the people who disliked some of 4Kids' changes with purists who pretty much think every anime is a holy text... because that isn't true, given what I've seen. Yes, you will always get the purists going into these discussions... but then you have people like me, who only find it annoying when the changes are, indeed, pointless or slightly offensive.

By which I mean, on shows I actually would willingly watch, say, Cardcaptor Sakura (which I don't think was a 4Kids dub, but I'm using this as an example because it's the only one I'm truly familiar with), some of the edits WERE dumb. For instance, if you watch the dub Cardcaptors (which skips the first 7 episodes of the series, despite the fact that they actually had plenty of exciting action) long enough, it starts to give the impression that Sakura is stupid and that Lee is smarter and more capable than her, or really, any other female character - the girls are portrayed as stupider and more incompetant than they are in the original, which I can tell you, certainly surprised people like me, who had heard much ado about how the show was "empowering for young girls". The original (and the subtitled version of the series, which begins with the first episode) has her as actually being fairly clever at figuring out how to capture the Clow cards despite the weird and unexpected situations they cause. They took a show that was a great little show with a little something for everyone and a smart young lead female character, and turned it into a slightly misogynistic Boys Club show. Did I care that Japanese elements were removed that wouldn't have been understood by most of the Kids WB audience? No. Did I care that they changed the opening theme entirely, from a light and girly upbeat pop song to the melodramatic Cardcaptors theme? No. Did I care that they changed names to things like "Madison"? Nope, not in the least. But did I dislike that they totally mucked around with the entire aim and message of the series, taking what was a girl-friendly action series (with little in the original to offend Western sensibilities) and turning it into an unfortunately typical "boys rule, girls drool" cartoon series? You bet.

I'd also like to note that while shows like Yu-Gi-Oh! may have sold poorly uncut, Cardcaptor Sakura's subtitled-only release that had no dub and almost no special features on the DVDs sold BETTER than the somewhat butchered dub version (Cardcaptors) ever did. Which makes me strongly suspect that it's a matter of audience for a particular show, not a matter of audience for uncut kids' anime in particular. Also, note that while the early Sailor Moon English dub is sometimes also considered "butchered", that it still kept the basic spirit of the series largely intact and sold quite well... as did the uncut subtitled releases of those same seasons, sold several years later. The edited dub VHS of the third and fourth seasons (which were more poorly-dubbed, being less consistent and featuring crappier voices for most of the characters, but at least didn't lose the girl-friendliness) as I recall sold not as well as the uncut subtitled VHS... but I seem to recall the bilingual DVDs selling quite well; there having been (eventually) a halfway decent market for both versions, obviously. Again - it depends on the audience for a PARTICULAR show, not kids' anime in particular. There were plenty of adult anime fans who thought CCS was cute and clever, or had nostalgia (as in my case) for Sailor Moon. These are largely the people buying the uncut releases. Newer shows I'm guessing have had less time to grow an adult audience that would be willing to buy uncut releases. Not that teens and kids don't sometimes want to watch stuff subtitled, but the majority seem to be fine with an OK dub, more compared to adults I would say. 4.238.9.228 16:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

That's all well and good, but I watched Cardcaptors regularly back in middle school and thought it was a great show. Of course, I had never even heard of the japanese version, like 99% of all kids in America at that time.

I'm sure anime fans are a great bunch of people, I'm one myself, but point being its a niche market.--69.242.35.210 05:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hahaha, title vandalism

Someone's vulgarised the title...but nevertheless, it seems to suit them more than "4Kids".Centurion Ry 19:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism Section

Okay, I spent my New Year's Eve going through that section with a fine-toothed comb. First of all, I don't have a hat in this arena, so I really don't care either way about this topic. However, you will note that I actually did not remove very much material - the majority of what was removed generally became redundant when I tightened the organization and wording. Anyways, my major changes are summarized below:

• Reorganized the entire section, primarily for logical reasons, but also to improve readability.
• Changed formatting, puncutation, and grammar to comply with Wikipedia standards.
• Created minor edits for tone in several places, added explanatory material in others.
• Expanded the list of "typical edits" based on a reading of several related articles.
• Attempted to produce a more neutral, and encyclopedic tone in the section
• Deleted a largely inconsequential, or unrelated, discussion of manga reading habits at the end of the article, in the last section
• Removed the "neutrality" and "clean-up" flags. Feel free to replace these if you feel this was premature. I noticed this article does not get a lot of traffic, so I opted to remove them now, rather than later.

However, in the course of editing, I noticed that there remain several outstanding issues.

• Insufficient sourcing. The article appears well-sourced, but it does not run deep. Most of these sources are from one or two interviews. More background material needs to be developed.
• Lacks scholarly opinion. Althought I strove to eliminate them, there remains an "opinion" section which requires an authoritative source for the viewpoint. In fact, this whole section lacks perspective, but (as I mentioned) I am not familiar enough with the subject material to do more than a relatively superficial neutrality edit.
• Final section is confusing. It is not apparent that this constitutes a major scandal at all. Frankly, it should either be removed or sources with more perspective need to be produced. I attempted to trim it down to the very meat of the point made, but unless this is expanded this article will never reach a high-class rating.

Anyways, it was a good experience editing this, and I would definitely appreciate any and all feedback. Haemo 09:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VG Cats link

I've removed the remaining link to the VG Cats strip since webcomics are not reliable sources. Perhaps if the section was making a direct reference to that strip, it would have been justifiable. But to use it to back up a vaguely worded statement about critics' views isn't acceptable. --TheFarix (Talk) 19:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with this edit. When I was re-working the original pages, I noticed it and thought it was odd. However, I don't really know anything about VG Cats, so I thought I'd give them a benefit of a doubt. Upon re-reading the standards, though, it appears that it is not reliable, and I strongly support this. --Haemo 22:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magical DoReMi girls "sexy"?

I have heard that Al Kahn has said that the Magical DoReMi girls' outfits are "sexy". Does anyone know when and where he said this and what his exact words were? 124.181.206.118 17:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

That never happened to my knowledge. If it did, I imagine it would have gathered a ton of attention.--69.141.190.230 00:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Please limit your discussions to improving the article, etc, not the article's subject. Matty-chan 19:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I found this on http://animenation.net/news/index.php?id=5490

According to C21 Media News, 4Kids Entertainment is in final negotiations to acquire the English language translation and distribution rights to the wildly successful Ojamajo Doremi shoujo anime TV series. "4Kids' CEO Al Khan told C21 that he is bringing the toon to Fox Box in an attempt to expand the gender demographic of the block... 'The designs are pretty so they appeal to girls, but the characters are very sexy so boys like them,' he said. 'We're hoping to mix and match the block's gender appeal.'"

I think this would be significant enough to add to the article. --124.181.247.231 16:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Has this quote caused any reaction from any news sources? Anyone at all?--69.141.190.230 19:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

If you guys are looking for information that news sources would talk about, I suggest deleting this whole page because no one really cares about this aside from children and anime fans. 70.17.0.102 18:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

If we practised that kind of standard ("nobody cares about this aside from..."), pretty much all of Wikipedia would be gone. Articles on film stars? Clearly only film lovers and fangirls/fanboys care about those. Articles on TV shows? Only fans of the show or people wanting to look into it would care. Olympic athletes? Only people who like sports. Astronomy, chemistry, physics or biology? Pish! Only science nerds care, right? American Civil War? Come on, it happened like a century and a half ago, and nobody but historians and re-enacters cares anymore, right? :P

If we apply the other portion of your "we should delete this" comment, there should not be an article on Acrylic glass, since surely few notable news sources care about Plexiglas, right? And by your argument, Anna Nicole Smith is more worthy of an article here than heliocentric theory, because every idiot news source from here to infinity seems to be covering Smith's death and whatnot, but most people accept heliocentric theory as a given, and it hasn't been controversial in centuries.

This is why Wikipedia has an NPOV policy. This article's subject is notable for being a successful and well-known nationwide American business in the entertainment feild, and for a mild level of controversy regarding some of their adaptations of Japanese series for American audiences. Note of course that it's not just "children and anime fans" who have cared; 4Kids has also come under fire from conservative groups in the U.S. for the content in some of their shows.

Of course, though, aside from that.. there ARE news sources that would talk about it. For instance, Anime News Network is, by definition, primarily a news source similar to Time Magazine, Entertainment Weekly, or many newspapers... it just happens to be focused on stuff relating to Japanese entertainment (and before you say "it's only online!" They merged with another company so that now they also co-operate a fairly popular print magazine). 4.238.9.228 16:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second major update

I've updated all of the lists, trimmed down some material, merged others. Very little information was lost, just moved around. All of the sections modified conform to WP:STYLE, to the best of my knowledge, and there are only a few more things to do before this article is probably ready to be nominated for an improvement in class:

• Organize the corporate material more properly. 4Kids is a large company, and has many branches. Currently, the "Leadership" section is floating at the end of the article and lacks sources. Add these. Any input on where this should go would be appreciated.
• Trim/reorganize the links at the bottom. These are coming close to conflicting with WP:NPOV, and they can probably be integrated into the criticism section without pause - especially the "selected critism" and "selected edits". These really should go. Okay, I've killed these. The criticism section definitely doesn't meet NPOV requirements for inclusion - the sentiment is already reflected in the criticism section, and unless we can find some professional and authoritative links for criticism, I don't think these should be re-added. I also killed a non-functional link, for obvious reasons. Still need to figure out what to do with the "edits" links.
• I remain skeptical about the noteriety of the "Kids don't read" fiasco, and am probably could to remove it unless better documentation can be found, or something strongly objects. Upon further research, this appears notable. I will leave it in - but it really should be moved to Alfred R. Kahn, since it has more to do with him, than it has to do with 4Kids. However, since that page is basically contentless, I will leave it here for now.
• Fix the "awards" section - it too, seems random. I am considering merging the leadership and awards section together, since they appear to have considerable overlap at this point in time. I have deleted this section, and moved it to Alfred R. Kahn instead. That article needs some TLC, but it's really not relevant for 4Kids Entertainment.
• FIND MORE, AND BETTER SOURCES. This is, by far, this article's weakest point at this time. We need to source our information properly, and use a variety of sources - the Anime News Network cannot comprise 3/4's of our links.

Cheers, and happy editing. --Haemo 10:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, ANN is actually considered fairly reliable as a source for anime-related things, but I do get what you're saying. 4.238.9.228 16:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Legend of Zelda and Banjo-Kazooie

Okay, I couldn't find any sources for a Legend of Zelda license aquired by 4Kids Entertainment, and Banjo-Kazooie is only a rumoured production. Rumours do not qualify under WP:VERIFY for inclusion, and I'm afraid I had to remove both. If you have sources that confirm, to the standards required, that these programs are in production, please both produce them and re-list the shows. Until them, I think they should remain deleted. --Haemo 09:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

For Banjo, see http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4650 Matty-chan 19:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, see, this is what I was referring to when I said "rumor". They're hypothesizing a future Banjo-Kazooie game, and cartoon series. However, the article is specifically a guess about future content - they say, in the article:

"[O]ur money is firmly behind Banjo-Kazooie to appear on the Xbox 360 , be turned into a cartoon and anything else that can sting the public for a few extra quid here and there, such as card games and toiletries."

As it says in WP:TRIV, "[Wikipedia] is not a dumping ground for speculation, rumor, hearsay, invented "facts", or libel." Since this clearly falls under rumor, I'm going to have to maintain that we keep it out of the article. --Haemo 00:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Also considering that Nintendo took Pokemon away from them and are work less with them I doubt they would give them the Zelda Franchise.--70.48.110.117 04:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "There is no controversy"

User:69.141.190.230 deleted the opening line "and an ongoing controversy over their editing practice", asserting "there is no controversy outside of anime circles". I would argue that this should be included - 4Kids Entertainment has made its name in the industry by primarily distributing and marketing anime products. If there is a controversy in the anime community - and this is a significant one, as far as they go, then it needs to be mentioned. Not only does it comprise a significant section of the current article, it is also one of the most enduring and recognizable associations that is made with the 4Kids name. It needs to stay, in some form. --Haemo 00:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. If there is an ongoing controversy with fans of the original product that 4kids is editing and distributing, then it is indeed "significant". 124.181.247.231 16:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying that the "controversy" among anime fans isn't signifigant, it is, thats why we have a section about it in the article. I'm saying that this "controversy" isn't on a scale nearly large enough to have much real-world impact. When it comes to defining what 4Kids is "most well-known for", their success with adapting the Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh franchises absolutely dwarfs the significance of whatever conversations take place on anime forums.--69.141.190.230 19:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from here, but it's a decidedly non-trivial issue, even outside the anime community. Most people are aware of the censorship issue, and tend to talk about it when 4Kids entertainment is referenced. If you compare this to the Microsoft article, you can see that their anti-trust problems are references front and center in the leading blurb. Our blurb is much shorter, but the point is still taken. 4Kids is not talked about a lot in the media - GNews brings up only a handful of hits - but even among those the editing issue is mentioned:

• http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/25/features/yadao.html
• http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=14001

That is, out of the 25 news stories that GNews tracks about 4Kids, 2 of them reference their editing practices. However, I do understand your point, and believe that if we can expand the leading blurb somewhat, it will be safe to mention both. Put it this way - a company can be "well-known" for several different things; not all of them have to be on the same scale in order to be included. 4Kids chiefly aims at its fanbase to pitch shows to, and the controversy chiefly exists among that fanbase. I don't know how you're defining "real world impact", but that definitely comprises such a thing in my opinion, given that (as the article shows) 4Kids has been forced to specifically address these concerns in their announcements, and in the products they issue. Also, I would just like to note that you should try and reach consensus on the the talk page before deleting content, rather than vice-versa. --Haemo 03:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, since there wasn't any further discussion for a few days I assumed that there wasn't anything left to discuss. Anyway, the blurb discusses what 4Kids entertainment is "most well-known for". The keyword is "most". The mainstream media only cites them as being the owners of the Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh properties, and as being one of the best-performing publicly-traded stocks of the late 90's. That is, with the exception of a column in a single issue of the Honolulu Star Bulletin, and one sentence of a online review of a Pokemon DVD, taken from the toonzone website which is part of the anime fan community. --69.141.190.230 08:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you're applying an unfair standard here. As I mentioned, 4Kids Entertainment is not really mentioned in the mainstream media at all. If you look at Google News, most of it has to do with routine business announcements and partnerships. I think we have to consider that their products are chiefly aimed at the anime community, and any controversy there needs to be reflected in the article. However, I'm coming around to your point of view, and believe that unless we can seriously expand the first paragraph, it doesn't meet WP:NPOV to mention the criticism there - as you said, we have a full section on it later on. --Haemo 22:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

What? 4Kids does not aim their products at the anime community, their products are aimed at children aged 6-12. This is one reason why 4Kids and its shareholders consider complaints from anime fans to be irrelevant, they are coming from a different market..--69.141.190.230 03:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Er, that wasn't exactly what I meant - I meant they chiefly target at the community of children who typically watch their previous programs. It was probably incorrect to call that an "anime community". However, I agree with you now. --Haemo 04:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The anime fanbase often crosses over into the 6-12 fanbase. Have you ever seen the 4Kids forums? They are full of pre-teens who consider themselves anime fans and quite a few of them actually use the character's Japanese names in their posts about shows like Ojamajo Doremi or Tokyo Mew Mew. Their love of anime is what draws them to watch 4Kids shows in the first place, then they Google their favourite 4Kids shows, and get directed to websites that expose 4Kids harsh editing practices, and then become upset that their favourite anime shows are being hacked up like this, then they go download subtitled uncut Japanese versions of the shows, quit watching 4Kids TV, and become part of the large "anti-4Kids" part of the anime fanbase. --Candy-Panda 01:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Expanding" the Criticism section

This is just a note - the last revision of the criticism simply reverted all of the material that I had specifically edited down. I thought, and no one had disputed, that I had retained all of the substantive content in that section, while still reducing either POV material, or simply non-neutral tone (either by actual wording, or surplus detail). Please, do not revert sections like that without discussing it - the "expansion", in my opinion, did not add anything to the article, while seriously compromising both the technical quality and the overal neutrality of the article as a whole. Again, please do not delete content without discussing it here. --Haemo 04:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Most of what you say needs to be explained in a certain light (since it's a touchy subject to some, example explaining how they edit shows) i had cleaned and changed the tone of the article while trying to included arguments from both sides. Your revision leans a little to much on the fan side (mostly in describing the edits). i had cleaned the article prior and had forgotten to remove the tags. (Ke5crz 05:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Hmm - I believe the current edit, as it currently stands, more accurately than the previous revision did. Mostly, in re-editing the article, I focused on providing a focus for each of the claims - rather than simply provided a textual "list" of comments by different parties. I removed very little material - and what I did remove, mostly was done so because it had become redundant, or unrelated. Frankly, I'm not a fan of anime or manga - I don't watch/read either - and began editing this article solely because it needed clean-up. I believe the typical edits, as described, are both fair and balanced - and have been described, as such by the management at 4Kids. However, I understand your criticism, and am editing them to remove the implication that 4Kids is directly involved in them - since it should be apparent, by context, and thus repeated mentions could be construed as being biased. Thanks for your comments, though - I very much enjoy feedback, and discussion, on what is being presented. I always felt the "edits" section was somewhat weaker than the rest, and am glad to hear confirmation on it. --Haemo 06:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cat Fanicer's Socitey and the RAF?

Is this true?--Hailey 02:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Unbelievably, yes, it is. You can check it out here. Look under properties. They're releasing toys based on the RAF, and I think cute cat photos with the Cat Fanciers, or something. --Haemo 04:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• I looked and the RAF thing seems alright.--Hailey 04:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

How do I can contact 4 kids entertainment so that I can get a response from what 4 kids email easier? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shirleybiscuit (talk • contribs) 03:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

You could go to http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/home/home.php and use the contact information there.--68.44.84.120 05:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

They're not very helpful. I asked a week or so ago if they had any information about their CEO, so I could improve the article (and his), but they haven't replied. --Haemo 07:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, under the web page titled "Leadership Team", they had this short bio of CEO Al Kahn:

Alfred R. Kahn is Chairman and CEO of 4Kids Entertainment, Inc. - a New York Stock Exchange-listed Company that is a global provider of children's entertainment and merchandise licensing. Mr. Kahn joined Leisure Concepts, Inc. (predecessor to 4Kids Entertainment's licensing division) in 1988 and is the architect of its expansion into a vertically integrated group of companies collectively known as 4Kids Entertainment, Inc. Mr. Kahn is a leading figure in the licensing industry, responsible for many of its biggest hits, including Pokemon, Cabbage Patch Kids and Yu-Gi-Oh! Mr. Kahn's entrepreneurial insight and unique youth-oriented marketing strategies are the hallmarks of his corporate vision. In 1992, Mr. Kahn added television production and distribution and media planning and buying to 4Kids Entertainment's licensing business by forming two subsidiaries: 4Kids Productions, Inc. and The Summit Media Group, Inc. In 2000, Mr. Kahn created 4Kids Technology, Inc. and Websites 4Kids, Inc. In January 2002, Mr. Kahn again expanded the scope of the Company by winning the bidding to lease Fox Broadcasting's Saturday morning children's block. The programming block, called the 4Kids TV, commenced with Fox's Fall 2002 schedule. With the additional hours of programming, the Company has become one of the largest suppliers of children's entertainment content to network television in the United States, with an average of 11 shows and 11 hours per week of programming in the 2002/2003 broadcast season. Also in 2002, Mr. Kahn added 4Kids Entertainment Home Video, Inc. and 4Kids Entertainment Music, Inc. Mr. Kahn has created a fully integrated platform that positions 4Kids Entertainment to harness and reap the rewards of some of the most exciting children's entertainment in the world. Mr. Kahn is a pioneer in identifying trends in Japanese popular culture and adapting them to a global audience, which has led to many successes for the Company, including Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh! A licensing and merchandising veteran with a strong retail background, Mr. Kahn was previously Executive Vice President of Marketing for Coleco Toys, where he is best known for acquiring the license and then mapping out the marketing strategy for the Cabbage Patch Kids. Mr. Kahn received his bachelor's degree from C.W. Post College.

I think that ought to be enough.--69.141.190.230 22:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of this source - it appears to be the only public biography. However, it's not very good as a biography - it's a very nice corporate biography, but it basically ignores Mr Kahn outside of his professional life. Furthermore, I'm not about to take 4Kids promotional material as encyclopedic content for this article. --Haemo 00:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, yeah there is a lot of marketing fluff in that, but you can pick out the factual stuff from it pretty easily. Does Kahn do anything notable outside of his profession?--69.141.190.230 01:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably not, but how can we tell? Furthermore, we have only even a corporate history for his time at 4Kids. What else did he do? Who knows! If you feel you have enough info to do a good write, WP:BB! --Haemo 05:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

Can you give some 4 kids email adresses I can contact because I can't find anything you said on the 4 kids entertainment home page.Shirleybiscuit

Todd Fromer

KCSA Public and Investor Relations Worldwide

212-896-1215

tfromer@kcsa.com

Corporate Offices

4Kids Entertainment, Inc.

1414 Avenue of the Americas

New York, NY

10019

212-758-7666

Here you go! --Haemo 00:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is something a little more relevant:

Daniel Barnathan

Executive Vice President of Sales, Marketing & Promotions, Fox Box 4Kids Ad Sales

dbarnathan@4kidsent.com

Sare Stern Levin

Vice President, Corporate Communications

phone: 646-822-4257

slevin@4kidsent.com

--69.141.190.230 01:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Sorry to ask this question but when you send a message to 4 kids entertainment how long does it take for them to respond because for me they didn't answer my question for a very long time when I send a message. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shirleybiscuit (talk • contribs) 23:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I suppose it would depend on who you ask, and what the content of your email was, and whether or not they want to answer.--69.242.35.210 00:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

They still haven't replied to me, so frankly, don't hold your breath. --Haemo 01:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

You could try a phonecall.--69.242.35.210 01:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

"Please stay on your long-distance phone-line while we put you on hold for a half hour, before spontaneously disconnecting you". No, I don't think that's going to happen, hahah. --Haemo 04:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I live in NY, which is where their headquarters is. I could just go there on someone's behalf (if I can find it).--69.242.35.210 20:32, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Send them some petrol bombs, and when they get to hell, tell them to tell them that The Centurion sent them.Centurion Ry 18:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Cartoons: Serious Business--69.242.35.210 21:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] question

What is Alfred R.Kahn 4 kids email address to contact him?Shirleybiscuit

It isn't posted to the public, use the contact information that is given by their corporate website. Also, stop asking making new headlines to ask the same question.--69.242.35.210 02:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] one piece question

Why on properties that shows the cartoons they have on the 4kids website why is one piece remove on there?Shirleybiscuit

Because that property is on hiatus. --Haemo 04:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Wait... it's off the site? Then it is cancelled. Matty-chan 04:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

thats proberly for the best they kind of ruined One PieceRocks Lotus 15:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Please limit your discussion to the article, not the article's general subject. Matty-chan 22:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it really cancelled? I thought they were going to start airing new episodes again on Toonami.--69.242.35.210 00:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, 4Kids stopped, but not all the English episodes have aired in the US. There are a total of 104 English episodes, and we have seen 77 in the US. The remaining episodes are airing on Toonami. Matty-chan 01:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

So the series hasn't actually been terminated by any television network.--69.242.35.210 03:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but the US is going to run out of episodes when they air English episode 104. Matty-chan 06:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thats assuming they don't dub any more episodes. Currently they are not in the process of dubbing, but nearly every television production company takes breaks during the production of television series. We don't have any indication that they don't plan to dub more in the future, and if the current batch of episodes were to show good ratings on Toonami then they undoubtedly will.--69.242.35.210 21:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

You know, I never thought of it that way. So technically, saying it's cancelled is still original research. *moves back* Matty-chan 22:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Actuallly, I'm not sure anymore. It's not just 4KidsEntertainment.com, but every piece of evidence of it ever existing was removed from 4Kids.TV and 4KidsEntertainment.com, except a few pictures of Luffy on the latter, and in a list of shows in the Properties section, but then again, Pokémon is still in that too. Maybe it is gone. Matty-chan 04:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I forgot about the website. Nevermind--69.242.35.210 22:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kappa Mikey

The show "Kappa Mikey" is listed as a production of 4Kids, but the show's own article says that it is produced by Animation Collective, while some of 4Kids' voice actors, primarily Dan Green, work on the program. Does that really warrant its inclusion in the list of 4Kids productions? LouisianaFan 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not just things they internally produce; it's material they produce, distribute, and license. --Haemo 06:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plagiarism?

Just because it's an unusual case, can we include a blurb about a time 4Kids plagiarized a fan website for their own? :D I have photographic evidence. But it's probably not important enough I guess. But definitely funny. Ivyna J. Spyder 03:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No original research. Unless you have notable and verifiable sources for this, it shouldn't be included. --Haemo 03:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:4Kids cast members

After discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007_January_25#Category:Actors_by_series, it was decided that Category:4Kids cast members would be better presented as a list (i.e. {{listify}}). Is anyone interested in doing this? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think 4kids has an in-house recording studio. If that's the case, then they wouldn't really have a static cast of voice actors.--69.242.35.210 21:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)