Talk:Yazidi

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Contents 1 Yazidi or Yezidi 2 Only few refugees in Germany? 3 Adam 4 Beliefs: How many angels again? 5 No tears? 6 Editing out anecdotal information. 7 Tattoos 8 Yazidi 9 Encyclopedia Iranica and Plagiarism 10 Discussion of the See Also Information 11 Yazidism and Zoroastrianism 12 temple picture 13 Yezidis 14 Move from Yazidi to Yezidi 15 The Tears 16 Yazidi/Yazdanism? 17 Kayla Williams' account 18 Fiz-Les-Loo 19 Tolkien 20 Why is this article larger than the Yazdansim article?

[edit] Yazidi or Yezidi

In the Kurdish language (Latin script), this word is written as Yezîdî. Its transliteration into English would be Yazidi. The Yazidis themselves prefer the former, since it is in Kurdish-Latin script.

Heja Helweda 20:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

How is Yezidis treated? -- Lupinoid

The Yezidi have a history of being persecuted - often due to the mistaken belief that they worship Satan. As far as I know, there is no history of them being persecuted in recent times, although I imagine that in Iraq they, along with Iraqi Christians, are rather worried about the possibility of Islamic fundamentalists coming to power. -- Michael Voytinsky

---

The connection of the Yazidis to the Ummawiy khalif Yazid is a common folk etymology, but almost certainly false. The Pahlavi (Ancient Persian) word for angel is "yazd", an element common, for example, in the names of Sassanian shahs, such as the three Yazdegerds. The Kurds are a Persian speaking people with strong Persian cultural ties predating the rise of Islam and the Arab ascendance in the Middle East and the name most likely arises from this background.

I will change the article accordingly. If this is problematic for anyone, please talk to me before editing. Thanks. Ddama

As far as I know, Kurds arenot persian speaking. Their language is Kurdish, which has some common roots with persian, but it isnot intelligible to persians nowadays. Heja Helweda 04:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Heja is right, Kurds do not speak persian but kurdish. they have their own language and culture. However, kurdish has close ties to persian, arabic and turkish 15:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

---

What's the deal with Yazidi vs. Yezidi? It just sounds like a transliteration difference to me and not a plural pattern in either Arabic or Medieval or Modern Persian. Further, the 'Yazidi' themselves seem to prefer the Yezidi pronunciation.

I am removing the claim that Yezidi is plural. However, I would like a consensus of contributors to this article before changing every use of Yazidi in this article and the entire Wiki to Yezidi. Please let me know if this is a problem. I probably won't be making the change for some time, at least a month, so I hope everyone has a chance to respond.

Thanks. Ddama

I don't agree that any such changes should be made until we have some documentation (a citation?) one way or the other. IMO lack of info isn't a good reason to change article content. On the other hand I have no info to offer on the subject, just my opinion as I have stated it :) Sam Spade 04:56, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure which of the two changes you're referring to, although I guess I didn't distinguish them very well in my prior talk entry.

If you refer to the change on plurals, I'm reasonably comfortable with Arabic, a language with pluralization rules so complex that linguists coined the term "broken plural" to describe them, but I don't really know Persian. From what I've seen, Persian plurals are traditionally formed by adding an -an to the end of the word in Pahlavi (Middle Persian), which evolved into -ha in Parsi (Modern Persian). Persian also accepts some Arabic plurals, due to cultural exposure, but uses them weirdly. If the word falls into this category, or some weird category of Persian loanwords in Arabic that pluralize even more abnormally than usual, or one of the many ways that Kurdish differs from mainstream Persian, than I may be wrong. However, I would err on the side of needing to see positive proof for such a claim, rather than negative proof that it does not exist.

If you refer to whether this article and all of Wikipedia should refer to Yazidi or Yezidi, it is not the biggest deal, and is likely only a transliteration issue. However, both of the external links in this article, which point to Yezidi webpages, use the term Yezidi. Further, the unscientific, but generally accurate, technique of polling Google showed three times more hits on Yezidi than Yazidi. Also note that a significant number of the Yazidi hits come from sites that mirror or filch from Wikipedia, and should thus be regarded statistical noise.

I'm not absolutely sure the change is the correct thing to do, but I definitely feel the issue should be raised. Wow... ten minutes ago I didn't even realized I had any feelings at all on the issue ;)

Regards. Ddama

Hehe.. I still almost don't. I just liked the idea of such an unusual plural, and I have seen it spelled the one way, and also the other. Considering how insular the Yezidi are, its entirely possible they have evolved their own curious variations on typical kurdish pluralizations, but if they did I can't imagine how it would be transliterated to being the difference of a or e in that way. I guess my main point is that I'd like it to be true, even tho I doubt it is, and I appreciate you bringing it up since it is such an odd particular. Cheers, Sam Spade 08:54, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Only few refugees in Germany?

I have read somewhere that actually the largest community of Yezidi is now in Germany, similar to the Alewis. This is maybe hard to confirm. Cheers, Gerhard

[edit] Adam

The article says they claim descent from Adam only. Would I be correct in the assumtion that they believe that there exist people not descended from Adam? --Tydaj 01:51, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have read that they believe all non-Yezidi to be descended from Adam and Eve. Only the Yezidi are descended from Adam alone. Xnoubis

[edit] Beliefs: How many angels again?

There is possibly conflicting information on display under Religious Beliefs. In paragraph one, it says that the world is in the care of a "Heptad of seven Holy Beings, often known as Angels", but in paragraph 3, it says that God created Melek Ta’us (interesting that compared to paragraph 1, this being's name has an apostophe), the pre-eminent of the Holy Beings (paragraph 1), and "the other seven archangels were created later on." Uhhh, now hang on. That would mean there is EIGHT of these beings. Should that say "the other SIX archangels"? Aragond 12:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, there is an apparent disjoining in paragraph 3 regarding the refusal by Melek Ta’us to bow to Adam. Earlier in the chapter, "God ordered Melek Ta’us not to bow to other beings." but then apparently God inquired of Melek Ta'us why he wasn't bowing, to which the Holy Being said his bit. This COULD be just an inconsistency (so to speak, without wanting to offend any Yazidi amongst the readership) in the texts of belief or God just testing Melek Ta'us, OR (and here is my question) someone is transcribing incorrectly. Can I get a witness confirmation that it is one or t'other?

[edit] No tears?

In earlier versions of the Yazidi article, I read the following:

"According to the Yazidi, Malak Ta'us is a fallen peacock angel who repented and recreated the world that had been broken. He filled seven jars with his tears and used them to quench the fire in Hell."

I realize that the current article describes Malak Ta'us as the leader of archangels and not a fallen angel, but why has the tears part been omitted from the current version? Was this false or just accidentally deleted out of the article? Thanks, Crushed Obsidian 02:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Editing out anecdotal information.

I don't know enough about the subject to be able to make corrections but the additions to beliefs strike me as being overly POV, anecdotal and confusing.

For example: Allah is characterized by ninety-nine [99] names, amoung them "the tyrant"&"the wily One".Certain qualities associate by Christians with "evil" are thus divinized by the Quran as attributes of God's majestic or "terrible"aspect.In this context,Satan cannot aspire to a separate or substantial autonomy-hispower cannot oppose Allah's but must instead derive from & complemeny it.Islam admits no 'original sin",only forgotfulness of the Real;likewise,cosmos/nature cannot be considered "evil" in itself,since it is a reflection or aspect of the Real. David Cheater 07:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. The section you deleted was badly proofread and seemed to be cut and pasted from a website (copyright?). I would have delete it myself but I didn't want to interfere in something I also know little about. Castanea dentata 22:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tattoos

We were talking about this religion in our class and we brought up the point that Kurds would have tattoos of the peacock angel on their necks, but I do not believe that this is possible since the religion was persecuted and the followers did not want to give away their identity. Sandy June 21:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yazidi

Yes Yazidis do consider Zoroastrain as originally Yazidi. It is not a surprise; every religion has its own beliefs. http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_3218.shtml 66.79.163.189 10:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that source reads "It is even possible as Yazidi say that Zoroaster was a Yazidi." but it also says ". "Others say that their religion come from Zoroastrians." Every religion has its own beliefs, but these seem to be rather personal beliefs which have nothing to do with the religious beliefs. Plus thats not an academic article, infact I dont know what it is --- K a s h ^{Talk | email} 11:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia Iranica and Plagiarism

A large section of this article is lifted verbatim from a recent edition of the Encyclopedia Iranica. While the Iranica project allows free viewing, I belive that they have not surrendered copyright and the material is not in the public domain. This is a potential problem for WP.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the Iranica article's claim that the consensus of modern scholars is that the name Yezidi comes from Yazid I is utter and complete bunk and I will take it up with the editor when I have a chance. If no one here objects within the next week, I will change the entry. Ddama 00:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Ddama, you should just change it when you have the time, if its in someone elses work. Who added the stuff that was lifted from it? I agree with the idea that their name is from Yazid I, to think that he ran off and ends up amoung kurds in what was old assyria and convinces them to worship a peacock god out of nowhere is....odd, to say the least Nygdan 1-18-2006

[edit] Discussion of the See Also Information

The druze and kizilbash aren't related to the yezidis anymore than the zoroasterians. I'd think that it'd make sense to include under 'see also' groups that are similar to the yezidis, no? nygdan 1-22-06

I assume they're included because they're minority indigenous religious groups of the middle east. Tomer^talk 17:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Tshilo: that and also that they have paganistic roots. These groups or at least portions of these groups, are similar to the yezidis, in so far as they have 'adopted' islamic ideas and added it to their native religion. The yezidis have only a veneer of islam covering them, the kizilbash of cappodocia are noted as having paganistic rites and practices (very similar to the ones practed in the same region before the advent of islam), and the alawis' theology is, in essence, a stellar cult with neoplatonic influences, indeed, another name for them, the nosairi (and variations there of), are what the pre-islamic religions of that same region were once called. So its all part of this idea of cypto-paganism Nygdan 21:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The entry and previous comments mention Yezidi come from Persia. Did they originally come from Yazd (Yezd), Iran?

[edit] Yazidism and Zoroastrianism

Funnily enough the sources of this "legend" do not seem to talk about this legend!

First source says: "Zoroastrianism is an Iranian religion; the Kurds are also Iranian"

How does this support the section where it says "According to a Yazidi legends Zoroaster was a Yezidi who left them."?!

Second source is the same as the first source. However it is being treated like it is an important legend which has been put on this article even though it is totally un-important and it is contradictory to Zoroastrian's beliefs -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 23:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It may very well contradict Zoroastrian belief, but this page is about Yazidi belief. Please don't delete entire sections until a consensus is reached on the talk page first.--WilliamThweatt 23:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't even matter if it is or not. Read my above statement to understand that such thing may don't even exist, or if it does, its not a legend with such importantance to be mentioned on Wikipedia. -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 10:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Yazidi Legends are worth mentioning on this page. It may not be important from your personal point of view (or Zoroastrian for that matter) but from a Yazidi point of view it is important, since that's how they understand and intrepret the history of their faith.Heja Helweda 03:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

You seem not to understand, your source does NOT claim that it is a legend. Stop adding it to the article --- K a s h ^{Talk | email} 10:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] temple picture

the temple picture ("40 men")seems to be missing from commons. --Vindheim 10:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yezidis

Thia article covers Yezidis as adherents of a belief not as a separate ethnic group. In Armenia they are counted officially on the census and regarded as a separate ethnic (not religious) group separate from Kurds.--Eupator 20:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide any sources for this? --- K a s h ^{Talk | email} 17:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I moved the following personal comments from Rafael1930 (talk • contribs) here - Skysmith 16:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I was in Kurdistan, north west Iraq, not far from the Iranian border, in the camp of Mustapha Barazani (Pesh Merga)in the winter of 1966-7. There were poeple who called themselves Yazidis among the Kurds we (Israel) helped in several ways. Detailed description of this help can be found in two Hebrew book:

• 1.Tsafrir Eliezer (Geizi) Ana Kurdi (I am a Kurd)

Hed Arzi Publishing House, Or Yehuda 60376 Israel 1999

• 2. Nakdimon Shlomo: A Crashed Hope: The Israel Kurdish relations, 1963 - 1975. Miscall 1996.

I was an MD with the Israeli delegation & became very friendly with the locals. Some of them, Yazidi, told me that they worshipped Shaitan, but this, according to literature above might have been derived from Zeus. Others told me they were of Ashoori origin. They definitely had Hebrew sounding names, such as Itzhak, Yakoob & one was called Kaissar. They had European looking faces. At that time I kept a detailed diary, but it was lost over the years. I do, however, have photos, copies of which can be displayed. In their book Williams, Kayla, and Michael E. Staub. 2005. "Love My Rifle More Than You." (W.W. Norton, New York. ISBN 0393060985) I remember to have read, among other things, that the Yazidi sympathize Israel. The above might explain this point. At the moment I'm unable to find the exact reference. Dr. Rafael Springmann-Ribak, formerly Springmann, 6 Klee Street, Tel Aviv 62336, Israel

[edit] Move from Yazidi to Yezidi

I don't know how the article originally got its name, but in Armenia this group is always referred to as Yezidi. The Yezidi in Turkey apparently spell it Yezidi, and on google, there are 3 times more references to Yezidi than Yazidi. I think it only makes sense to move the page to Yezidi, and make Yazidi (if anyone is spelling it based on how it sounds) point to Yezidi. Votes, thoughts, comments, objections? --RaffiKojian 02:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Both words have the same spelling, but in two different alphabets. Yazidi is the transliteration of the local name in English alphabet, while Yezidi(or more correctly Yezîdî pronounced as YAZEEDEE ) is the Kurdish spelling. E in Kurdish Latin alphabet has the same sound as A in FAT. So sometimes, Kurds who write in English, use the Kurdish spelling, and others may have copied from them.Heja Helweda 00:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Tears

In a section above someone asked why a legend about Satan putting out the fires of hell with 7 jars of tears was removed. I just came to this article because someone in my college classes mentioned this story, and there is still nothing about it. Let's discuss this issue. Academic Challenger 06:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

That story is repeated at Melek Taus. I've heard it mentioned often, but I've never found a source for it. I've read the Black Book, and it's not in there.--Cúchullain ^t/c 06:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yazidi/Yazdanism?

The claim that Yazidism is a minor branch of "Yazdanism" I have never seen made in any other article or text outside of wikipedia. This claim needs a citation to substantiate it. This appears to be a leap in trying to connect the Yazidi religion with other isolated Kurdish/Middle Eastern faiths. The Alevi faith I have also never seen connected with "Yazdanism" but only viewed as an offshoot of Shiite Islam, and there seems to be nothing in common with their beliefs at all and those of Yazidis or Yarsans. Yarsans and Yazidis seem to have some commonalities in their beliefs, ie, the various avatars and beings associated with God and the universe; beyond these however, it seems that the claim of these religions having some common origin is, for the most part, complete speculation based on the proximity of their geographic origins along with the isolation they all share in common in a mostly Islamic region.--Masterryux 22:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I've actually read it in several places, but I haven't really looked on the internet. The idea is that there was once a widespread, Kurdish-based faith centered on the worship of the angels. With the rise of Islam most converted, the ancestors to today's Yezidi did not, and still others incorporated their old practices into their new religion. This is what the Alevi did. I don't think it's fair to count them as a "branch" of Yazdanism, since they are practicing Muslims, but their ancestors were and their current practices retain traces of that. I'll try to find the books I found that in.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kayla Williams' account

I have removed from the paragraph on Kayla Williams' account the statement that the shrine she visited was the Chermera Temple-- it may well have been (the photo looks similar to one in her book), but Williams makes no claim to that effect, and if an editor thinks that it was, some verifiable source should be provided. Further claims about the temple being related to Jesus I have separated as a distinct paragraph-- these claims are not in Williams' book. In fact, these claims are utterly unsourced, and my first inclination was to remove them. However, much of the article is unsourced, and a consistent application of that policy would leave a much shorter article. MayerG 03:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fiz-Les-Loo

• Does this supposed Yazidi "fighting ritual" or martial art, "...that most efficient form of jujutsu", really exist? Is it documented in any credible reference sources on the Yazidis?

[edit] Tolkien

The Yazidi beliefs seem to bear a striking similarity to Tolkien's Silmarillion. Is there any connection?

• In what way? - Skysmith 11:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this article larger than the Yazdansim article?

Shouldn't quite a bit of this be there and not here? Zazaban 01:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

You know what, stuff from all three articles on the denominations should be moved there. Zazaban 01:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)